Muhammed Yousuf Tarigami, Nitheesh Narayanan
It’s been 10 ten days since I mailed Muhammed Yousuf Tarigami the transcription of the interview I did with him on September 15, at Jammu and Kashmir house of New Delhi. Tarigami, a four time MLA from the Kulgam constituency of the now dissolved Jammy and Kashmir assembly was in Delhi, getting an interim release from the house arrest following the supreme court order which allowed him to move out of the former state to avail medical treatment. He spent a few days in the national capital. Before leaving back he expressed the suspicion that he might be denied all communication possibilities once again by the ruling class, despite the court stated that he is a free man. The communist leader retuned to Srinagar on September 19th and since then we failed to reach out to him at every attempt. His phone is not reachable. A mail was sent to him on September 25th requesting him to check the transcription of the interview before it goes public. No response was received from the other side. There was also a WhatsApp message which has not been delivered yet. We were waiting to meet him directly once he comes to Delhi to attend the Central Committee meeting of the CPI-M which began on October 02nd. That hope also went futile with the administration denies him the permission to travel to the national capital. Whether the official record states it or not, beyond any doubt, he is imprisoned as the way more than seven million people in the valley are forcefully disappeared from the access of the rest of India. We regret that we could not counter check with Tarigami before publishing the final transcript of the interview he gave to us. Still, we are bringing it to the public, as it is more important for the world to listen the voice of the valley.
Nitheesh Narayanan (NN): All of a sudden we woke up to the news of article 370 and 35A of Indian constitution being abrogated, the state of Jammu and Kashmir being divided into two union territories, and a complete communication blackout begins. How do you recall the whole developments towards this?
Muhammed Yousuf Tarigami (MYT): You see, as far as the emerging issues in Jammu and Kashmir are concerned, drastic decisions were taken on 5th of August. Before that, there was an environment created by the administration and the Indian government and certain restrictions were imposed on the ongoing yatras. Such a situation had never occurred before, though we have seen turbulent days, difficult times, when the violence was intensified and reached a higher level. Yatras were not stopped and the tourists were never asked to leave. There are labourers who are coming from different parts of the country and now they were forced to leave. All these incidents created virtually a panic situation in the valley.
Earlier, the Government of India and the administration of Jammu and Kashmir made big claims about the increased number of yatras to the valley. They proclaimed that the environment there, which was already conducive became more favourable as never before because of the present regime in Delhi and the administration in Jammu and Kashmir. When we raised questions about the advisories and deployment of additional security forces they responded that it is a normal and routine replacement of the forces. The yatras were put a hold in between saying that there are security concerns, terrorist threats etc. The fact is that, even when there were terrorist attacks in the past, yatras were never stopped. Therefore, the question was that when there is a fully fledged deployment and security arrangements and when the administration claimed that there is a secured atmosphere, how was it possible that they were unable to make sure the safety of those small belts in Pahalgam area and the area of Balaten?
Then there were rumours spreading that something is going on as 35A is summoned, and immediate meetings were conducted by the Bharatiya Janatha Party in Delhi. They said that those were regarding the elections. But some of us were seriously thinking that something is being hidden from the people. The unfortunate part about the situation is the ways in which the current regime is functioning. Instead of taking the people into confidence, they are creating panic and spreading lies and rumours. Is it accidental? It is an organised move and there is bigger purpose behind it. When former chief ministers Farooq Abdulla and Omar Abdulla and one of their MPs met the prime minister, they posed the question about the article 35A and other. He said nothing is happening. Parliament session was going on. We raised a question about the existing turbulent condition in Kashmir and why the parliament is unable to take up those issues and concerns. When the then defence minister Rajnath Singh came to Jammu and issued a press conference, he said that all have failed in dealing with the issue of Jammu and Kashmir, but they would immediately come up with a solution. We called a press conference on the next day, and said that the 70 years problem is not to be discussed on the streets. It is a serious matter and if at all he is serious about it why no discussion is happening in the parliament? What exactly you need to do is to take the country, the people and the political leadership in Jammu and Kashmir into confidence. Nothing of sort was initiated.
BJP gave whip to the MPs (to be present in parliament) which gave a sense that something is going to happen viz Kashmir, viz this constitutional provision. Even then nobody was told anything. So, we met on the 4th of August at the residence of Farooq Abdulla and issued a statement urging upon the Indian government not to do anything which disturbs the current situation, adds to the already uncertain atmosphere in Jammu and Kashmir and making the situation more complex and more difficult. In fact, we specifically asked them not to tamper the constitutional guarantees like article 370 and 35A which are the very basis of the relationship between the union and the states. That day at mid night many of us were told that we are under house arrest. On the 5th of August, the home minster made an announcement in the parliament about the re-organisation of states as well as the division of the state without circulating the bill among the members. See, there is a procedure of doing parliamentary business and they have floated that as well. I very much doubt whether the senior leaders of BJP were taken into confidence a few hours before. This is how virtually a constitutional coup has been conducted.
You see, already two petitions from some groups are pending in the Supreme Court of India challenging article 35A by the NGO, ‘We the Citizens’, which comprises RSS people supported by the government. And then some other group of people and individuals challenging the article 370 as well. That is a pending disposal before honourable Supreme Court. Many of us, including the CPI(M), have submitted intervention application. But cunningly the BJP did not file an affidavit there. Usually when constitutional provisions are challenged and when it is under consideration, the existing government defend those provisions of the constitution. But here, they did not do it. They did not even wait for some sort of serious hearing. They did not give a chance to even to the Supreme Court of India.
NN: Huge claims are made about the integration of Kashmir, they have succeeded something which could not be done by the predecessors. Is it only now, with taking away the special status, the region have been integrated to India?
MYT: We must go back to the history of Jammu and Kashmir and see how the relationship was evolved. The region of Jammu and Kashmir was a big princely state under the rule of Maharaja Hari Singh, at the time of Independence. When he was given the choice to join either India or Pakistan or to be an independent state, he chose the latter option. This was to protect the interests of the exploitative feudal monarchy. However, the people of Kashmir, who had already experienced the feudal order under Maharaja, strongly opposed his decision to remain independent under the patronage of British. At the same time, Pakistan with the help of the British organised armed groups to invade Kashmir. These raiders ran amok in the region, committed huge atrocities, looted the local population of both Hindu and Muslim communities and reached the outskirts of Srinagar. It was the leaders of National Conference who mobilised the people and fought back the invaders. They defended Srinagar by putting tremendous sacrifice and at the loss of hundreds of lives of Kashmiris. Then the Hari Singh requested military help from Indian army which was possible only if he agreed acceding to India. It was under such circumstances, under the pressure of people’s resistance, the instrument of accession was signed. In fact, Jammu and Kashmir did not merge, but it acceded to India.
Moreover, Maharaja Hari Singh along with his group submitted the signed copy of the instrument of accession and a letter along with it detailing that they are acceding to certain subjects alone. No other princely state ruler did like this. The Governor General accepted and assured that when the law and order situation improves they would refer the matter of accession to the people of Jammu Kashmir. This is how the relationship had evolved. The pact had emerged as an agreement between the union and the state. Article 370 is the reflection of that pact in the constitutional mechanism of the country. Breaking of the article 370, according to the constitutional experts, amounts to fundamentally assaulting the very basis of the compactness of the pact.
NN: Now BJP is claiming that they have successfully integrated Jammu and Kashmir into India.
MYT: What is the basis of this integration they are claiming about? When you talk of integration, of friendship, of oneness, of some compact there has to be certain willingness from both the sides. They have integrated with what? We have integrated Jammu and Kashmir. We, our forefathers and the forefathers of Indian constitution, through negotiations and through entering into constitutional arrangements, evolving some assurances, establishing some constitutional mechanisms had integrated Jammu and Kashmir. It is on this premise the relationship was existing so far. CPM has been of the opinion that whatever erosion has taken place in Jammu and Kashmir, all of them resulted in weakening this relationship. We were angry at the Congress. By eroding the basis of that compact, they have created a sense of alienation among the larger section of the population which became the capital for the other side of divide to create trouble, or to encourage trouble in Kashmir. So when you talk of integration, what is the basis of accession or integration? All the other states have become part of the Indian union not through the intervention of army, but solely because of the willingness of the people and their participation. It was not by means of force India was united. Now they are claiming that it was the ‘strongman’ who could make it possible and the ‘weak man’ who could not. It was not a command system of an individual that united India. It was through many struggles and movements a sense of unity was evoked among the people of India. In the context of Kashmir, Kashmiris fought against the autocratic rule, against aristocrats and tyrants. They have fought against the feudal regime of Hari Singh also. The prevailing slogan of the time was ‘Quit Kashmir’. Quit Kashmir for what? We wanted a self-rule. We must be given a chance to manage ourselves with our own effort. Land to the tiller was the question; the empowerment of the peasants was the major concern. Here, in the rest of the country independence was the slogan and Quit India was the movement. So that Quit India movement and the Quit Kashmir movement was the bridge between the two. It was the ideological foundation and ideological orientation which provided some basis for our unity. It is not created in vacuum and not by any force.
NN: So, it was a process of consultation and mutual trust?
MYT: Definitely. Constituent assembly sessions were going on in India, at Delhi. There were members from National Conference, senior leaders were part of those deliberations and many discussions took place on the issue. The entire leadership that time, including Vallabhai Patel, Rajendra Prasad and Shyama Prasad Mukherjee agreed regarding the provision of special status to Kashmir. That is how the first article 406A (in the draft constitution) was adopted and later converted as Article 370. Who shaped it? The constituent assembly of India. How it emerged? Through the negotiations between the representatives of the people of Jammu and Kashmir who were part of the constituent assembly and those representatives belonged to different communities. With whom they made it? With the forefathers of the Constitution of India. I don’t know whether they were good people or bad people, whether you like them or not, but we believe that they laid the foundation for the modern India.
NN: There is a claim that this will lead Kashmir to development and the youth will be getting more employment and opportunities. This actually gains quite a lot of acceptance among the people. What is the reality?
MYT: We cannot mix the two, the political environment and the developmental issues, or the employment issues for that matter. Neither should be one substituted for another. Dignity is important. But sincerely speaking, today, an average Kashmiri feels humiliated. With the ways in which the aberration is done, every Kashmiri, irrespective of which creed they belong to, what kind of life he/she leads or with which group he or she is associated with, is treated with humiliation. Even in the prisons there is a sense of mobility accessible to the inmates and an urge to have something to move beyond the four walls of the prison. The situation is Jammu and Kashmir is worse than that.
Look at the history of the people of India; there was a Quit India movement. The movement was not only for the developmental purposes. (Of course that is part of the life, and we are not denying that). But with that movement created a sense of belongingness and the possibility of people’s involvement in the process of the life itself. As a human being, you want to participate in the process of anything that takes place in the society. If you are humiliated, if you are ignored, if some sense of subjugation is created, no amount of anything which you provide to the concerned person will heal him. This has been historically true.
Now, look at the questions of development and employment. Of course those are the questions of livelihood which are important for the lives in every situation, everywhere. It is not only significant for the Kashmiris, or for any particular section for that matter. The present Prime minister of India, Mr. Modi and his party BJP in the election manifesto in 2014 made big claims. Go through the pages, go through the lectures they delivered to the people and the promises they made. What did they say? ‘Sabka Sath, Sabka Vikas’. Just examine where is the Vikas and where is the Sabka Sath? Look at their own statistics which they are hiding now. Ask them the statistics and how exactly have they delivered these promises? What happened and how they have transformed those commitments made to the people into reality. These days, in fact, even the statistical institutes are being pressurised not to bring the actual figure out which is another attempt from the centre.
What happened to the promise of creating 10 crore jobs? During demonetisation period, how many people have lost their jobs? Ask them. My point is that I am not concerned about job opportunities in Jammu and Kashmir alone. I am equally concerned about the job opportunities elsewhere in the country as well. In the records, you can find that the unemployment issue has become really bad and the situation has become the worst in the last 45 years. This is what they could achieve in five years of their regime. Which article stopped them from delivering jobs and development to the people in the country?
Within one month of their second term, they are claiming a big achievement in Kashmir. The achievement is that there is a total clampdown. Now look at the whole political class which was divided earlier. Hurriyat was branded as a secessionist organisation. Then, there were mainstream political parties which were termed as pro-India. Now, they all have been put in the same jail. This is the achievement that they are boasting about. You see, in the contemporary world, every activity is depended on your communication structure and the degree of access to such facilities. In Kashmir, every communication medium such as internet, telephone etc. have been shut down and business functions are stagnated. For the last 43 days shops are not opening, children are not going to school, employees are not able to move to their respective work place, patients are not able to communicate to the doctor, students and labourers working outside Kashmir are unable to communicate with their family, public transport is not working and the whole life of people is paralysed. What is your development? They have virtually demolished whatever little were achieved in so many decades.
NN: Even Modi has repeatedly said that whatever is done that is for the development of the people? For him that cause justifies whatever human rights violation going on in the region.
MYT: Development is for whom? For the people. But here, you are enslaving them. Today I was told that there was a radio announcement about new jobs. A young man in Kashmir have no access to get to know this. You are talking about development, while people are even denied the access to information. What kind of development is possible when the people’s lives are paralysed?
Tell me, what does article 370 have to do with the development or non-development of an area? It is true that successive governments have failed in delivering development to the people of the region. They have failed in many aspects, including the question of governance. Nevertheless, how obnoxious is it to compare the development of Jammu and Kashmir with the Gujarat model, presented by the BJP? Let them compare the two and put up the figures. You will see, according to the official statistics, Jammu and Kashmir is much ahead of the model they are showing off. We are not saying Kashmir has developed enough, or we have never struggled for development. But doing away with a constitutional promise is not the way, definitely.
How come Article 370 is an obstacle for development? People are still fighting for the universalisation of education both inside the parliament, and outside in the streets. This happened long back in Jammu and Kashmir, and we have universal education from school level to the university level. This did not happen in UP and in fact in many other states as well. Only 10% households live below the poverty line in Jammu and Kashmir. It is much less than the all India average, which is 22%. Infant mortality rate (32 per 1000) is lesser than the national average (40 per 1000). Life expectancy in Jammu and Kashmir is 73. National average is just 68. The situations are worst in other parts of the country. Still, it is true that subsequent governments, both at the centre and the state have failed in meeting the aspirations of the youth in the valley. But it has nothing to do with article 370 or 35A.
NN: How do you place this whole incidents in the larger context?
MYT: Quit India movement against the British have brought many things to the people of India and also for tor the people of Kashmir. However, people of Kashmir gained more from the Quit Kashmir movement against Maharaja Hari Singh. Despite the many differences they had, there were common values upheld by both the movements. Our unity is based on those values which emerged and established through people’s movements. We have celebrated the diversity we in our lives. There are numerous languages, ethnicities, different religions, cultures, habits etc. in our country. That is why we have unity in diversity. But what does RSS document say? There is only one nation and only one language now. If so, what will happen to the languages which are the life lines of the people in respective areas? They are saying there is only one identity, which is Hindu. Then the question is which Hindu you are talking about? Is it caste Hindu or outcaste Hindu? Haryanvi Hindu or Telugu Hindu? You cannot reduce everything into a single identity. RSS talks about oneness. But their oneness is divisive in nature.
I remember Jinnah making two nation theory. Our firm opinion is that religion cannot be the basis of the building of a nation. Across the world we can see battles going on between countries and communities in the name of religion. By arguing for a single nation and single identity, they are virtually suggesting following what Muslim league had suggested. They dictate that Hindu and Muslims cannot be together, different ethnicities cannot be together. According to their agenda only Hindi-speaking people are part of the nation. All other regions, which speak different languages such as Telugu, Malayalam, Bengali or Tamil cannot be a part of the nation. That is why I reiterate that their claim of oneness is divisive. Their slogan and their policy on Jammu and Kashmir falls in this context.
I am sure that whatever tricks they are using to polarise the population, the people of Ladakh and Jammu will fight it back. They will also be angry about doing away with the land rights and the special guarantees to protect their lives. The future is coming closer and eventually the real issues will come out. The only requirement is that the political leaders should be able to deliver the basic needs of the people in ground, dare to fight against the threats on unity and pose challenges to the ruling class.
If Kashmir is targeted today, it is a beginning of a bigger assault. Therefore, my appeal to the people of the country, to all the democratic forces and the student community is to unitedly resist the offences of the authoritarian communal regime. Younger generation have to speak loud, and reach out to maximum people with truth. They should not be fallen under the false propaganda scripted by the regime.
NN: Cancellation of the special status of Jammu and Kashmir was a long time demand of the Sangh Parivar. It started from the time of Shaym Prasad Mukherjee itself. It is the completion of their long-standing demand.
MYT: When did the Sangh Parivar start opposing the special status of Kashmir? Shyam Prasad Mukherjee did not have problem with the leader of feudal monarchy, Maharaja Hari Singh having a separate flag. He raised the slogan “Ek Nishan, Ek Vidhan”, ‘One flag and One Constitution’ when the Maharaja’s flag was replaced by that of the state. This represented the struggle of the entire people of the state for a constitutional democracy and the struggles of the toiling masses, the tenants and oppressed section. It is actually these struggles integrated Jammu and Kashmir to India. Now you tell me who is standing against this? Historically, it is the RSS.
NN: You must have heard about different campaign and comments made by RSS/BJP leaders following the abrogation of Article 370 and 35A. Manohar Lal Khattar, the Haryana CM stated that now the Kashmiri Girls can be brought to other states for youngsters to marry.
MYT: This is the culture. Earlier, RSS was claiming that they are a cultural organisation. You see how cultured they are and this is what their culture is. An organisation of such culture is disgusting, anti-women and atrocious. I have no words to respond.
NN: There is yet another important campaign unleashed by the Sangh and the government that now reservation will be implemented in the region and the question of social justice have been addressed through this decision. Has J&K not conscious about the questions of social justice so far?
MYT: This is completely a manipulated propaganda to gather larger support for their decision. Ask them which law is not implemented there? There are reservation policies in Jammu and Kashmir. In Rajasthan and other states Gujjar community is in agitation demanding tribal status. In Jammu and Kashmir they got the tribal status long back
It was in Jammu and Kashmir for the first time in entire subcontinent, the slogan ‘Land to the Tiller’ was achieved without any compromises. Who benefited from land reform? Mostly the marginalised. I’m talking about the toiling masses. What is the status of OBC, Dalits and tribes in other states? If they are that committed to implement reservation, why are they not implementing it in private sector? Why even in government sector large number of seats are laying vacant? This campaign is part of their larger Hindu mobilisation for electoral gains. Dalits are not treated as human being in BJP ruled states. We know what happened to the young brilliant researcher, Rohit Vemula under their regime. Such incidents have hardly happened in Jammu and Kashmir.
Asifa, the eight-year-old girl who was brutally raped and killed, belonged to Gujjar community. A nomadic tribe with no land of their own, one of the most marginalised groups in the region. She was abducted, kept in a temple, raped and killed by criminals. When we raised questions about this incident in the assembly, BJP said that it was manipulated. Their leaders came in support of the criminals involved in the heinous crime. BJP have communalised even the crudest crime. This is what they do. First they divide the people among the narrow lines. Who believe that they will bring social justice for the oppressed?
NN: There are two sections inside Congress party regarding the abrogation of article 370 and 35A. While one section opposes, the other stand in support of the decision. Almost all the regional parties AAP, TDP, BSP, AIADMK etc have welcomed the decision. What all would be the reason?
MYT: I must tell you very frankly that the gravity of the situation is very serious. They have been successful in putting pressure on different institutions. We have seen how they are using the CBI, NIA, Income Tax offices etc. in order to silence the political opponents. Many of them are scared. Secondly, politically some parties have taken the wrong turn. They might be thinking that supporting the scrapping of article 370 may bring them popular support. But they must understand that by supporting the current move by the central government, they are destroying the very basis of their existence. In Delhi AAP is talking about the rights of the state. The same APP does not show an iota of concern when the rights of Jammu and Kashmir were taken away. We had a convention, in 1983, in Srinagar on State- Centre relations. All the parties involved in it strongly stood for the federal structure and supported article 370. TDP founder NT Rama Rao was also part of it. Now TDP has taken a U-Turn. This is what has happened with many parties. Both the Left and DMK firmly stood against the abrogation of article 370. We acknowledge it, still the larger section is on the other side of the fence.
They must understand that Kashmir is not their only target. This is an assault of federal system and on the very idea of ‘unity in diversity’. This will definitely have more implications in the rest of the country as far as states ‘rights are concerned. Soon, they will come to other states. This is not integration, but disintegrating of whatever unity is existing now. Nevertheless, we strongly feel that the people of India will realise the seriousness of the situation. Those who are vacillating today, the bourgeois parties- be it regional or national, they must wake up, before it is too late. Kashmir is the wakeup call for all of us.
NN: How do you register the history and the role of left in Kashmir’s politics?
MYT: You will see the active role of communists throughout the history of Jammu and Kashmir right from the colonial period itself. There were leftists who could influence the ideological and political framework of National Conference party, a result of which was it being renamed from Muslim Conference. The ‘Naya Kashmir’ document is what laid the basis for the existence of Jammu and Kashmir in the constitutional democracy of India. The communists of Kashmir were also part of the drafting of the document. If you go to Srinagar, you can see that the heart of Srinagar is called ‘Laal chowk’. That is because of the influence of the communists in the region. Earlier many attempts were made by the conservatives to change the name of Laal Chowk, but the people of Srinagar did not allow that to happen.
Again, the implementation of land reform by the then National Conference was possible because of the influence of communists. When the society was more conservative, communists organised study circles and played an important role in shaping the consciousness of Kashmiri people in favour of democracy and secularism. We are not claiming we did it all by ourselves, or we were a strong force throughout the period. But certainly we were not absent. Despite being a small force, we have fought fundamentalism. We have been attacked and our people have been killed. We have, more importantly, fought against wrong policies of the government. We alone cannot change it. That is why we push for unity.
NN: You will be moving back to Kashmir soon. We don’t know whether we will be able to contact you after that. Things are difficult. Tell us how do you see the days to come?
MYT: The situation is pathetic there. The most distressful days I have ever witnessed. We need your support. SFI and other left student organisations along with the progressive forces were in forefront to defend the rights of the people. We are concerned about the Kashmiri students studying outside of the state who are facing extreme hardship. We appeal to all progressive forces to help and join us. It is a united battle. We hope we will face it together. We will resist. We shall overcome.
Nitheesh Narayanan is the editor of Student Struggle, a Central Secretariat member of SFI and a PhD scholar at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi. Read his interview with Fernando González Llort here.
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